Hoping someone might have some more clear information for me...

Hoping someone might have some more clear information for me as it seems the agent I was corresponding with may not have been giving me the correct information. My Indonesian fiancé and I are getting married in Australia and then I will be relocating to Bali to both live and work.

I am planning to take up work as a freelance dj working in restaurants, lounge bars, night clubs and private functions such as birthdays and weddings etc.

The agent I was corresponding with led me to believe that "As concerns working, the Immigration Law No. 6 of 2011 in Article 61 gives foreigners who are married to Indonesians the right to work to support their family. So long as you are not engaged in a permanent employment relationship with a company where they would need a permit to employ you, you should be ok to to offer your services on short-term contracts or consultancy. If you want to work as an employee, we can arrange a Work Permit for you after the KITAS is all settled."

I am just trying to get info on the best way to allow myself to legally work djing in Bali. I don't intend to be contracted to one company specifically but may do ongoing work with 5+ companies.

Thanks in advance for any help provided!

Have they told you how much this will cost? I know it’s not cheap, but believe Billy may be doing the same. Speak to him

I know that a freelance entertainment kitas all inclusive is approx 25 million per 6 months. Just trying to see if there is any other options

Even that is borderline there are no such things as freelance entertainment imta. Work permits are usually for management positions and experts. On a Work permit you can only work for one company and only get paid by that company.

That's interesting as the entertainment kitas is something that several other djs have told me about along with multiple agents and even directly at immigrasi in Bali

The Kitas is the staying permit, the imta is the work permit, maybe that is some kind of weird under the table agreement with the immigration in Bali. Theory and reality are two different things in Indonesia, but I am pretty sure there are no freelance entertainment work permits, the ministry of manpower goal is knowledge transmission in between foreign workforce and local workforce, there is a minimum employee requirement to obtain an IMTA and so on.

An IMTA is tied to a company and to a job.

I'm not sure specifically. But I have spoken with djs and agents advising me that this particular kitas would allow me to work for any company on a freelance basis and that it is only good for 6 months at a time after which I have to reapply. They advised me that once married I can reapply / renew without leaving Indonesia but otherwise I would need to do a "visa run" before being able to come back for another 6 months

You mix Kitas and imta. But there are definetely no imta for freelancers, your best option is to be on a spouse Kitas and use your right to work for your family living as a freelancer. But it is not always clear in the law whether you need to be on Kitas or kitap for that.

To have an IMTA you need a contract from a company.

benjamin91 thanks for the info. This is what I'm trying to find out. The agent I was corresponding with before led me to believe that was the case. Using my right to work for my family. I'm just trying to find out exactly what is involved and the cost so I can better prepare myself. The agent I was dealing with has stopped responding to my emails so i'm trying to gather info on my own unless someone can recommend someone who can assist me.

Shannon Scully better you do your Kitas by yourself, less than 10Mio for a year. Once this done be sure to be paid as a freelancer not an employee then do not forget to report taxes.

Actually your wife should be the one applying as your sponsor.

But this is still a gray area, there are plenty of topics about that. The best would be for your wife to create a PT and have employees...

benjamin91 any idea what the cost is involved in that? I have been given a lot of different info on that too. Some have told me it's less than 20 million, others have told me it's 100 million plus and that you need at least 100 million in the bank extra

The cost of creating a PT is around 30jt but after in order to be able to hire foreigners you need to have a medium sized one that requires 1Bln minium capital invested and there is a minimum number of employee required. Other option is a PT PMA but price is insane and business sector are limited.

After the problem is are foreigners allowed to work as djs?

That I am not sure as it is something considered doable by locals.

I know a lot of foreigners working as djs in Bali so I don't believe that is an issue

Well, deportation is never far away trust me.

I'm pretty sure their imta is not dj.

Not sure but I know many have been working for many years without issue and I know that immigrasi regularly check clubs etc for that thing

Maybe they are event managers something like that and if there's an immigration check they'll be in trouble.

benjamin91 not sure but I have been there when immigrasi has checked their info and they've been given the all clear so they're obviously doing something right or bribing very well!

shannon586 OK if you say so but I have serious doubts or the clubs have long pockets.

I heard second option can happen in Indonesia ?

You should ask your dj friends about that then they must know better.

benjamin91, it's possible to make DJ kitas and in imta will be written disc jockey

valter69 you still need a company to provide the IMTA, no freelancing.

And these contracts will be on the company behalf not his after the arrangement between the company and himself, it is something different.

Still amazed that disc jokey can be a title on IMTA.

i know a guy Djs here nad he is entertainments manager, cannot be disc jockey, also club he worked at has very deep pull wiht Immigrasi, here in Lombok as Sales and Marketing I was able to play at our in house events as long as trainign a local DJ along side me.

valter69, did the ImTA issued to a Company (with a Company RPTKA)?

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From. My understanding, that kitap your talking about is only available after 2 years of marriage it's basicly permanent residency valid for 5 years and the next stage after a spouse visa. Which allows u to work as a consultant only.

After 2 years of marriage this visa will be available to you and as per indonesian law your allowed to work on it as a consultant for the means of supporting Ur family, however if u work for one business only u still need the working visa. The cost is a 1 year spouse visa is 9jt this visa will not allow u to work on it at all, after 2 years u can apply for the second stage of it which is a kitap visa valid for 5years at a cost of about 40jt this is the visa Ur allowed to work consulting on.

As an aprox cost, family visa is the first one before the permanent visa

Actually it might work with Kitas too, there are some discussion on forums, because you are not considered as a foreign worker you have to abide by a different law with your spouse status.

benjamin91 from what I was informed on the spouse kitas I'm not allowed to perform work, but can on the pr visa as a consultant only.

But again who knows with this system lol

There are plenty of forum threads about that, nobody knows the truth, by plain translation of the law, Kitas or kitap are no difference on that be subject. But still a gray area, better get an IMTA.

The law that applies is that as the head of your family you should be able to provide money.

Spouse kitap 40juta???? Lol. I did myself and payed only 5,5 juta with 2 years merp! And yes, not allowed to work with kitap. If you want to work you need to get IMTA. That’s why many foreigners open a business on their spouse name and help on the background which is allowed

Yeah that 40jt is a scam from agents. Admin fees are more or less the same as kitas!

benjamin91 the sktt is also funny which you can get for free at catatan civil, they charge 500.000 lol. My wife would be happy to help these foreigners for half of the price ?.

inse8 if u read what I said, I said the permanent residency visa is 40jt not spouse which I also said was about 9jt with a agent

Is it? “after 2 years u can apply for the second stage of it which is a kitap visa valid for 5years at a cost of about 40jt this is the visa Ur allowed to work consulting on.”

Kitap or as you like to say permanent residency visa for 5 years + 2 years merp is 5,5juta. Kitas with merp is 2,1juta. Kitap lifetime is 11juta and this is all without IMTA which you need for working.

It's not so much a second stage but another seperate visa, which allows a 5 year stay with all the goodies and allows U to work as a consultant in bali

inse8 is right.

scott8013 I had a IMTA, immediately I got my spousal KITAS. There is no 2 years waiting, in fact......

benjamin91 "The law that applies is that as the head of your family you should be able to provide money." True, but Labour law state clearly that a company have to get an IMTA to hire a foreigner. So Yes you can do some work for private people, help your wife in her warung and all kind of informal work. But as soon you are in relation to a company the IMTA is required.

A couple of points....not one of we foreigners, unless already wni, is head of our family (look at your KK.). So that clause about providing for the family, is inapplicable. Also, saying you have a duty to provide is hardly a blanket permission to do whatever work you like, of course you have to comply with all other existing laws.

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Every company who hires a foreigner needs to have a working permit (IMTA) for this foreigner. No exceptions made. No difference between hugh factories or a lounge bar or club. The only office which can and inform you correctly will be Depnakertrans (Labour department). You can find their office for example in Denpasar.

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A foreigner cannot work free lance for a company.

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New rules are on the way, announced by the president. Let's see and hope that these rules will be more clear and easy to understand so that we as foreigners with good will to contribute to the Indonesian workforce can do that on a more safe base. Right now no one seems to know the rules, not even Depnaker.

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The new regulations will not change the base for getting a working permit, which are in general very clear, only often wrongfully explained by so called "middle men" to make money. The new regulations are only to simplify the administrative procedure.

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Contact , he knows exactly how it works

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So much wrong information here.

First your require a sponsor, this will either be a full time employer or a visa agent who has the permission to sponsors DJ’s on there Company structure.

Second you require both a Kitas( extended stay permit) and an Imta (work permit)

The agent can organise both of these. The imta will be for a disc jockey there is no such thing as a free lance work permit. It’s the agents sole responsibility by Le to manager who you work for but this doesn’t happen. Once u have the paper work you will be able to contract to venues as a Dj within the scope of your imta

You can apply for a spouse Kitap after 2 years of being married but u must register your marriage with immagration for the 2 year period to commence.

The cost including flights to Singapore to process your visas will be approx 26mil every six months.

You can’t just work anywhere, that is determined by the dept of manpower and what cities they allocate on your imta. But if your only wanting bali u will be ok, as this region will always be on the imta. Some of the local islands may not be and you will now need a contract with the venue to have those regions added to your imta at the time of application.

If you don’t have a good visa agent let me know and I’ll hook you up with one.

jos96262 no the department of manpower list the cities you can work at as a Dj. We can’t play anywhere we want. If it’s not listed at the time of application you can’t work there. They have cracked down on the Dj industry in the past year and are allowing less and less cities because most western DJs don’t perform in many places other than bali anyway. Someone like myself that gets booked accords the country regularly has more cities than those that don’t and I must supply contracts in advance to have those cities on my imta. If I don’t I can’t work there.

seanie80 manpower charge a tax of 100 usd per month on the imta. They call it tax and it’s not the same as wages tax.

The infrastructure for work permits here is an absolute nightmare. It’s hard to understand at the best of times. The music industry has different from other industries and that’s what you need to understand. I’m not quoting anything n visa or work permits for any occupation other than a DJ.

jos96262 yes tha s correct but if you don’t have a contract in place for say a venue in samarinda they will no longer allow it onnyour inta. They have become strict on this.

jason3 for other companies (in Lombok) that manpower charge is to allegedly train a local. And paid in dollars.. upfront..

seanie80 yes that’s correct and it’s same in bali.

seanie80 not sure how much training actually happens though as I’ve never heard of any

Some of us are Lawyers AND DJs? (although ironically neither in Indonesia /sad face)

jason3 it is the same.. only I can proof that that I need to have the possibility to bring my guests through whole Indonesia. If I cannot proof this then I only get a IMTA for the region. If you can proof by contract where you need to work you will get that area added to your IMTA when you apply for a new one.... the rules are all the same only the job description is different.

seanie80 I think DJ's get paid more than Lawyers.

rachel0 In my sales and marketing roles I'm lucky if I a tually get paid or a signed contract, or fulfill the entirety of my kitas terms... Effing bules?

My region is on the company RPTKA, my IMTA is based on that. The RPTKA lists the regions, not my IMTA.

Jason, thats exactly what i said.

jos96262 yes that’s correct. Sadly for a Dj a club won’t issue a contract without a valid inta. So your very lucky in your industry. We in the other hand have to do a tonne of bargaining prior to application with the clubs to get the cities added

rachel0 that’s different for a Dj we don’t have a RPTKA like you do

jason3 Im learning more and more.

The whole enquiries was for a dj Kitas and imta so I don’t get why people are quoting rules and regulations of other industries when they are all clearly different to each other

jason3 I think because this is news to everyone. We did not know there was an industry that had different rules.

same same, but different

rachel0 that’s good. It’s hard when every industry has different rules people get confused and think they know everything. I can only advise on the Dj industry as I work within it.

guy8 yeah from what I read here it feels like djs have special status in Indonesia lol.

jason3 So, maybe we should get back to the OP and sumarize what you have advised as you are the only one here that works in the industry and knows it.

Your advice to shannon586 would be dont get a spousal KITAS as he wont be able to do what you do and work as a DJ as he needs his KITAS and IMTA sponsored by an Agent?

As that is what he wanted to know, is it legal for him to work as a DJ under his wifes KITAS. You are saying no, but it is legal for him to work as a DJ under a "Special KITAS and IMTA".

And that if he goes to Manpower and Immigration they will give him this exact advice?

Did I get that right?

rachel0 all the industry’s that are available for foreign workers have different regulations to suit the need of the country’s development. The general Kitas and imta process is all the same but regulations attached to the imta vary from trade to trade

Benjamin Roos I don’t know that’s it’s special it’s just customised to suit the industry. A Resturant employes a chief full time where as a club does not. So artists move from venue to venue. Also a chief doesn’t tour to restaurants in Borneo Jakarta and Surabya etc selling out seats in restaurants where as a Dj does. A DJ can bring growth within the industry in multiple cities or venues at one week where a specialist chief or engineer normally work at one location. Remember we are here to assist the growth and education of indonesia therefor each industry’s rules are different according to the country’s needs

rachel0 ok I’ve spoken to Shannon but I’ll break it down here so you can understand.

1 go to a visa agent who is allowed to issues sponsorship for a Dj ( ive given him details of a reputable agency)

1 the agent will A) organise a spouse Kitas ( not a KETAP) B organise sponsorship for his IMTA (work permit from manpower through his visa agent) C lodge all applications and organise both the Kitas and imta.

After registering his marriage and waiting 2 years the visa agent will then apply for a kITAP for him where he will no longer require a imta and can work in the entertainment industry with the sponsorship of his wife only.

jason3 Ahh, I misunderstood, thank you, so he can have a spousal KITAS. I think this is the most important step. I think he should just organise that himself. No need for an agent, his wife can do that easily.

Then he can ask Immigration and Manpower about your advise.

guy8 a chief is employed by a sole employer not an agency so he can only work for than t employer at their establishments. He can not be subcontracted out to other restaurants where a Dj can be so the imta registrations are clearly different for each industry

I am sure i am not alone, in saying WHAT? After 2 years a dj can be in spousal kitas and work for companies with no imtas? Lets get 1 thing straight. Did you get this from anyone else, or just your agent? Serious question. Backup info needed, please!

kesha99 correct but they still require an inta until they have a Kitap as u know. That was the Confusuon

guy8 That could* stem form the Immigration departments interpretation of Formal and Informal work.

Jason, not really each industry, so much as different employment situations. Most industries fall under sole employer (as you call it), some under agencies...... consulting..... i cant think of anything else.

You can apply directly for a family kitas, just not allowed the kitap untill 2 years if you are a male, a foreign female married to an Indonesian can apply straight away for the kitap after getting the family kitas.

guy8 the registrations where changed over two years ago allowing forgin males to apply for a Kitap and work under the wife’s SPonsorship in certain industries only. A Dj a chief and a kitchen hand come under this law, I’m not sure what other industry does but I recall it’s very limited to the entertainment and restaurant industry

guy8 but you can only have an imta for one employer. The agent is the DJs employer by law

Seanie, firstly its manpower not immigration..... i know what you mean, but its certainly normally clear that if you do anything for, in, or with a company, they are employing you. Bear in mind, this is a law about employers, not employees so much, its about a company being allowed to pay a foreigner to do something for them....

guy8 I’ve replied but I’ll try find the relaxant documentation for you. This is when you come off a Kitas and go onto a ketap.

Nope, I have worked without an imta on the family kitas previously and was cleared by immigration performing multiple places in Indonesia but it's just more complicated so I chose to make the imta as a supporting document to save having to teach them their own rules haha

Jason, absolutely not. Under spousal kitas/p you can get any job, any industry, that can get an imtas for you. You are right on one thing, it started a couple of years ago.

guy8 yes correct, Head of immigration Lombok (word of mouth, i know) has stated to numerous expat friends, Once you are married we do not care any more due ot article 61 a

guy8 with no imta>? (after kitap)

Ahh so your agent is your employer. That was the bit I wss getting stuck on. Who employed you.

Had lunch and a pee, and you lot are still at it ???? TMI ?

rachel0 I am employed by M visa services

It makes sense now.?

seanie80 as Kesha stated yes u can work without the Imta but it causes a lot of confusion across the country. It’s best to have the imta also

rachel0 phew ?

so in two years expect 45 year old me to make yet another djing comeback...

seanie80 wearing white flared jeans? ?

if theyre in sure, but i never wore flares

Please note there are both formal And informal occupations when it comes to a KITAp and this may help resolve some sort f the confusion as to if u need or should attain a imta when u have a KITAP

  1. Yes, you can. If for a PT company, you have to add a Work Permit to your KITAP. For informal work you would not need a Work Permit (see some examples below).

(2) The KITAP is the basic document. I guess depending on the employer he/she may require KK and KTP too. By the way, you are required to have both the KK and KTP Orang Asing. These documents usually are free but if you apply for them late (around 60 days afer the issuance of he KITAP), there may have a penalty.

(3) No, you don't need a work KITAS or a work KITAP.

(tranlation from http://percaindonesia.com/catatan-so...-7-maret-2015/, about a meeting with Manpower officers and PERCA Indonesia, which is an association of Indonesian married with foreigners) [..... A) Holders of KITAS/KITAP sponsored by spouse are allowed to work in the company during a full worl permit, including having IMTA. ? Foreigner workers cannot work in two different places (the same profession or different) EXCEPT investor / commissioner of PMA (If one works in three places the number of IMTA must also be 3). C) If the activities of the foreign worker are in more than 1 place / province then he/she must have inter-provincial IMTA. D) Case: Husband / wife of a mixed marriage with cuisine chef background want to open a small café, with a small seating area is classified as a small business and does not require IMTA. When this business grows crowded and large, than it is necessary to have operating permits from the relevant authorities. When the businesses becomes a legal entity, then this foreign worker must have IMTA. E) Case: Foreign husband of a mixed marriage is already retired. Enters Indonesia with VOA and becomes an investor in a hotel in Bali. Once in a while he does work behind the scenes such as checks on the financial controll department. With such conditions, it means the husband has been conducting work in Indonesia and must have KITAS and IMTA, because even not all the time he is working. F) A foreigner in a mixed marriage with KITAS sponsored by wife. Working from home and having online businesses. Does not have an office and legal business such as PT or PMA. Because this foreigner is conducting work even though he only works online so this foreigner must have the IMTA. This foreigner also cannot sign work contracts in Indonesia on behalf of himself. G) A foreigner who works and own business as an acupuncturist, must obtain an official recommendation from the local health office before doing business and work activities. If already have a recommendation from the relevant authorities, the foreign must have the IMTA to be able to work in Indonesia. H) A foreigner holder of KITAS/KITAP sponsored by spouse is allowed to work in Indonesia. The need of IMTA is to be seen from what the job, workings for a legal entity or not, small or large business.

CONCLUSION: Although the Immigration Act 6 of 2011 Article 61 states that the holder of a Limited Stay Permit and Permanent Stay Permit can work and/or do business to make ends meet for him/her and/ for his/her family, but still has to refer back to the Labour Law No. 13 year 2003 and Permenakertrans No. 12 year 2013, which essentially mean that a foreign worker in a mixed marriage is allowed to work without a work permit if in the informal sector, freelance or have a small business which is not a legal entity. When working in a legal entity then MUST have IMTA.]

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With marriage kitas yes u can work to support ur familly...but u still need imta provide by company...and that not applied for DJ

That’s what I’m trying to explain to them. To work as a Dj they need to do what everyone else does for 1st 2 years

jason3 correct

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Article 61 a as far as I know, only applies to men.

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I am a male. Last time I checked anyway.

sorry buddy, Shannon not that popular a boys name in England

lets play B2B whne you are here some time?

I figured the pasty white guy in my profile pic along with the gorgeous indo girl would have given it away? I'll check out your mixcloud.com. Mate. Mine is www.mixcloud.com/djrealau

Can I check?

yes

seanie80 starting my bike now

? It's online.?

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shannon586 feel free to DM me, I know exactly how it works and have done it. People here are giving misinformation.

kesha99can give you solid advice too. She has been here working as a Dj for a very long time and has also been married to a local so she has first hand experience in what I’m talking about. Great Dj too

This is your best option mate. Otherwise I will pm

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Have your fiance set up a DJ/entertainment business.

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Never believe an agent, they often recommend what is easier for them or where they can make the most $$. If you are married and your married is registered in Indonesia the only KITAS/P you should consider is the one sponsored by the wife or your own company if you build your own company, all another sponsor can you cost a lot of troubles or money. Then for work for a company, the company will need an IMTA that is provided by the manpower office (depnaker). If your sponsor is an agent,the companie that hire you or a 3 person you are bind to them, if you want to change or are unhapy with them you cant simply change as they have the power to isue an EPO exit permit only and you have to start all over again. If you plane to become indonesian you will have to stay 5 Years in Indonesa (without EPO) so sad if this happend after 4 Years

Even if you start your own company with your wife under a Kitap it doesn’t guarantee manpower will allow you to Perform as a Dj in any city you like. Be careful. It also doesn’t guarantee your company will even be allowed to Emily DJs. I have friends with entertainment PT PMa companies and it’s taken 5 years before they are permitted to employ and sponsor DJs and bands. It’s always best to use an agent that has a good standing in the industry already or purchase a already standing company that has the relevant imta approvals for sponsorship already.

jason3 as you have no guarantee using an agent that a ccompany will get an IMTA, but as long as you cant provide me a regulation where it's written that to get an IMTA to hire a DJ this DJ has to be sponsored for the KITAS by the agent or The Employer and specifically ban employee on KITAS spouse sponsored, I will state that you are wrong on this point.

Marcel Heiniger what the hell are you talking about. The agent is the company and the that both sponsors you and supplies the Kitas and the imta. You legally work for that company/ agent. That’s what Visa agencies do. ?? a spouse that sponsors you instead of an agent sponsors you to live here and not work here under a spouse Kitas. When u have moved onto a spouse KITap u can work under the spouses sponsorship in informal employment situations only. Your own warung etc etc if u want to be a Dj u still require a fkn imta. How hard is it to explain this to you. It’s not my place to pull up the copies of legislation I am simply giving the poster the correct information he asked for. If you want further clarification hope on your little scooter and transit to imagassi office and ask them yourself and you will find I am 100 percent correct on this matter. I have worked here as a Dj and an Dj manager for many years and follow the rules and regulations to the T. There is no room for error within indonesia when it comes to work permits, there are no mistakes if u mess up you go to jail so please don’t quote misleading information that you don’t 100 percent know about. Someone will read this and end up working without the correct permits and end up destroying their lives due to wrong information.

Reding is hard sometime, bring us the pasal that stipule that the sponsor for the KITAS/P has to be the agent and can not be the spouse. And not just my agent do it this way.

marcel5 no one said it must be an agent. Where did I get that from. A spouse can sponsor you, so can a company, but if the man what’s to be a dj who is lawfully allowed to perform at more than on venue he must use a visa agent for his imta. No one said he can’t use a spouse for his Kitas ( stay permit) ?

jason3 did and this was all the discussion about here

Jason, you really are confused in what you write. Stop insulting people who just go on your words, and then deny you said them.

Im still confused about how a visa agent can sponsor a working KITAS. Help me. Surely the working KITAs is sponsored by the employer? Its not the normal role of a visa agent. at all.

guy8 if the employer is the agent it can work, and i believe they talking agent as impresario and not the comune visa agent

ps are you actually living in Lovina? then we could have a dring one day instead of chatting al time via FB

marcel5 Yeah, I guessed that - but Im bored with this man not even bothering to get out of his tiny bit of experience, and trying to make everyone look small who doesnt agree with him.

Not quite - a bit further than Pemuteran.

guy8 maybe he is right (just not provide the rules applying his witing) and we are wrong, in this case he thinkk the same about us lol

Yes, iI thnk we have established that really - he is right in that he has a work permit, and kitas, as he described - of course, he should know. But he added in loads of wrong info, - like having to have a KITAP to get an IMTA if you have a spouse-sponsor, and other things. And having a shit attitude, loses loads of ponts.

guy8 the visa agent is the employer for the Dj so that the Dj can be contracted to multiple venues by te agent

marcel5 no an emprisario is a different visa for short term touring artists

guy8 I’m not insulting anyone as of it seems that way I apologies. I have only given the legal facts I am really not sure why there is so much confusion about it all.

marcel5 no I didn’t. Is said if the person wants to be a Di and play at multiple venues his imta will need to be sponsored by a visa agent. The Kitas can be Sponsored by his spouse as they are two different things all together

guy8 I didn’t say you have to have a Kitap to obtain a imta, I said when u have a Kitap you should still have a imta if you want to work for multiple employers. Either way to obtain an imta you must have either a Kitas or a Kitap. You can’t get an imta without one.

jason3 "Jason Stone Marcel Heiniger no I didn’t. Is said if the person wants to be a Di and play at multiple venues his imta will need to be sponsored by a visa agent. The Kitas can be Sponsored by his spouse as they are two different things all together"

Here a few citation of your posts:

"Jason Stone Guy Manners there two types of Visa they are talking about, one is a spouse Kitas that allows u to stay here as u r married. With this one u will require a work permit (imta to be able to work) the second is called a Kitap, it allows u to work to support your family without the need of a IMTa and is cheeper and lasts longer but u must be married 2 years before u can apply for this one. I think this is where the confusion is coming in."

"Jason Stone Guy Manners I have explained the laws to you a dozen times already on this post. Immagration Control the stay Visa section (Kitas / Kitap) manpower are the government agency that controls the Work permit side of f it (imta)

You require a sponsor this can either be a sole employer or a visa agent. If u want to work at more than one venue u must use an agent. You can clarify all of this by contacting immagration and manpower. One would think that someone giving advice who has worked her for 3 years would be credited. Either way it’s doesn’t bother me I’m just offering assistance to a fellow Dj who want to work here.#

Marcel Heiniger Jason Stone the sponsor can also be the Indonesian wife "Jason Stone Marcel Heiniger not for a Dj they can’t unless he is on a KITap which ties two years"

So please [jason3]) this group is called "Law and Regulation in Indonesia" and not "Fake news, I will make Bali great again" and if you have and come with Law and regulation advice at least stand your man ad your word, and not come with "no I didn't" when you are short on argument.

"Either way to obtain an imta you need a kitas or kitap"..... difficult for people applying for a working kitas, who need their company to apply for the imta first so manpower can send the telex to the embassy to get the vitas to enter indonesia to process the kitas.

Jason, just so you know, it may be normal if you are a dj for your visa agent to be your employer, but for virtually all normal jobs this only happens by the agent having fake paperwork for a fake company, whereby the newbie has a fake job in it, getting a fake kitas. Now, the kitas is actually real, made and signed by immigration, but has no paperwork behind it. The agent never gets into trouble for this, as he has the connections. But people got deported, sometimes years later, when it was found out. Quite a few used this process in the past, but now its just part of the old corruption. Visa agents do not, normally, actually act as peoples sponsors.... in every case except as a dj (so i heard haha) this is very suspect. This is why your dj system was (and i bet still is) met with disbelief.....

Heres a side question...... is it still almost impossible to bring large amounts of vinyl into indonesia without paying a huge import tax bill?

There is no distinction between spouse sponsored KITAS and KITAP with regard to right to work to provide for family... both have the exact same right. That is immigration law. Whether an IMTA is required depends on the type of work that will be done.. only informal work can be done without an IMTA. So if planning to be a DJ and expect to be paid then to have any legs in court will require a contract, and that contract makes the work formal, therefore an IMTA is required. That is manpower law. But hey im quite happy to have any DJ come and do jobs at venues im involved with and “i promise” i will pay you without needing a contract.. yea right. You seriously think im gonna pay for something i dont have to, ha! ?

marcel5 I beg to differ Sir. Both Jason and Leon know what they are talking about

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shane858 you are very misinformed. I suggest you contact your local immagration office and get the facts. More than happy to meet you and immagration and have them explain it to you mate

if they know so well why do they give contradictory information? first, affirming wife cannot be the sponsor for the KITAS for somebody that want also work as DJ, that manpower mad special rule about this just for DJ. then telling never said that?

Shane Shepherd - you are very much misinformed. I know many DJs here in Bali. Immigration makes them jump through hoops. A certain man who has commented and given strong advice and has a gorgeous girlfriend, lives and works here in the same Industry

marcel5 that is Indonesia and Manpower and something our current President, President Jokowi, is trying to change and make a smoother transition

jason3 it says it all right here in UU6 article 61.. the KITAS being limited stay, and KITAP being permanent stay. So no im not misinformed ?

Jason himself has mentioned where perca posted an article with translation from a depnaker official stating that “informal” work is allowed, formal work requires IMTA.. so how am i misinformed? And immigration clearly states that both temporary AND permanent are allowed to work. This was also quoted by Jason. Again, how am i misinformed?

guy8 exactly, being normal habit doesnt make it law. Wife can sponsor stay permit and any suitable employer can sponsor the IMTA.

jason3 i already have contact for immigration, the leader for Surabaya, and also Jogja.. and neither of them deal with IMTA, soooo you can send anyone you want but as they are not authorised in that department i will take the advice of my contacts in Surabaya and Bali depnaker. ?

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Hey Shannon, DIG YOUR TUENS BRO! we have similar vibes..?

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anybody drops outro lugar is good in my opinion

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Regulations on Imtas vary from industry to industry. Take the oil and gas imta you must be between the age of 30 - 55 to obtain one, unlike other industries where there is no or a different age restriction

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With all those comments I don’t have time to read through but let me assure you from someone in exactly the same position as yourself - if you are married to a WNI spouse and your KITAS is sponsored by them then YES you can work to support your family. You do NOT need IMTA but you cannot sign contracts in your name. Get your spouse to sign anything that needs signing, and get any payments that are transferred into an account in your spouse’s name. That’s it, you’re covered under Indonesian law. Any specifics feel free to contact me via PM.

And u can only work in informal Employment classifications and not for a PT pma company.

  1. Yes, you can. If for a PT company, you have to add a Work Permit to your KITAP. For informal work you would not need a Work Permit (see some examples below).

(2) The KITAP is the basic document. I guess depending on the employer he/she may require KK and KTP too. By the way, you are required to have both the KK and KTP Orang Asing. These documents usually are free but if you apply for them late (around 60 days afer the issuance of he KITAP), there may have a penalty.

(3) No, you don't need a work KITAS or a work KITAP.

(tranlation from http://percaindonesia.com/catatan-so...-7-maret-2015/, about a meeting with Manpower officers and PERCA Indonesia, which is an association of Indonesian married with foreigners) [..... A) Holders of KITAS/KITAP sponsored by spouse are allowed to work in the company during a full worl permit, including having IMTA. ? Foreigner workers cannot work in two different places (the same profession or different) EXCEPT investor / commissioner of PMA (If one works in three places the number of IMTA must also be 3). C) If the activities of the foreign worker are in more than 1 place / province then he/she must have inter-provincial IMTA. D) Case: Husband / wife of a mixed marriage with cuisine chef background want to open a small café, with a small seating area is classified as a small business and does not require IMTA. When this business grows crowded and large, than it is necessary to have operating permits from the relevant authorities. When the businesses becomes a legal entity, then this foreign worker must have IMTA. E) Case: Foreign husband of a mixed marriage is already retired. Enters Indonesia with VOA and becomes an investor in a hotel in Bali. Once in a while he does work behind the scenes such as checks on the financial controll department. With such conditions, it means the husband has been conducting work in Indonesia and must have KITAS and IMTA, because even not all the time he is working. F) A foreigner in a mixed marriage with KITAS sponsored by wife. Working from home and having online businesses. Does not have an office and legal business such as PT or PMA. Because this foreigner is conducting work even though he only works online so this foreigner must have the IMTA. This foreigner also cannot sign work contracts in Indonesia on behalf of himself. G) A foreigner who works and own business as an acupuncturist, must obtain an official recommendation from the local health office before doing business and work activities. If already have a recommendation from the relevant authorities, the foreign must have the IMTA to be able to work in Indonesia. H) A foreigner holder of KITAS/KITAP sponsored by spouse is allowed to work in Indonesia. The need of IMTA is to be seen from what the job, workings for a legal entity or not, small or large business.

CONCLUSION: Although the Immigration Act 6 of 2011 Article 61 states that the holder of a Limited Stay Permit and Permanent Stay Permit can work and/or do business to make ends meet for him/her and/ for his/her family, but still has to refer back to the Labour Law No. 13 year 2003 and Permenakertrans No. 12 year 2013, which essentially mean that a foreign worker in a mixed marriage is allowed to work without a work permit if in the informal sector, freelance or have a small business which is not a legal entity. When working in a legal entity then MUST have IMTA.]

as Bars and club are most of the time PT, the informal work will not work the CBars or Club need an IMTA, or our agent have an IMTA for you

isnt that specifically fr the wife's business? Not if its someone elses - then you need an IMTA. Yes?

guy8 that the grey area where I still getting contradictory information "when wife business is a PT" 3 different manpower and 2 immigration they give all different answer and different pasals of the laws with different interpretation. for my inderstanding a PT is the equivalent to a LTD so it's no more directly the wife's business but a business owned by the wife and in this logic would need an IMTA. Imigration singaraja told me the way "informal work" is OK as long as you not weare an uniform or name tag, but again 3 weeks later the answer was less clear.

Hi actually I was replying to Martins comment..."if you are married to a WNI spouse and your KITAS is sponsored by them then YES you can work to support your family. You do NOT need IMTA but you cannot sign contracts in your name. Get your spouse to sign anything that needs signing, and get any payments that are transferred into an account in your spouse’s name. That’s it, you’re covered under Indonesian law. "

He makes it sound like you can have employment without a IMTA - so I assume he means, if the work is in your wifes business.

I am completely with you about the PT - you are no longer 'helping" your wife, if you do stuff in a pt unless of course you physically stick by her and help her directly. I know someone who was deported, working in his wifes PT. Imigrasi said he was simply working there - which he was, but not signing contracts or taking money... driving mostly. But not working with his wife, iin fact they worked in separate cabang of the same pt. Kind of obviously stretching the law, actually.

guy8 would be so easy is as married to an Indonesian, you get the same right and obligation as an Indonesian, could be also just on KITAP to protect the country against job-wedding.

guy8 yes that’s is possible on a Kitap and for informal jobs like his wife’s business. But not as a Dj

marcel5 I think there is a very grey area between what is formal and what is informal employment depending on what immagration officer you talk to

marcel5 I know several westerners who are married to Indonesians and work as DJs without an inta and get away with it here in bali but it becomes an issue when working outside bali as immagration departments demand a imta. I’d suggest ha ing one of you plan to work outside bali for sure

jason3 the problem is not immigration but depnaker.

guy8 think about it like this - if you work for a company, a PT or any other type of company, and you need an IMTA, then that company needs to get the IMTA, not you, right! Now you’re a DJ, so you work for 7 different companies every week. Now which of those companies gets the IMTA for you? Remember you are not permitted to have more than one IMTA.

If you’re not married to a WNI spouse then the only way you can work as a DJ in Indonesia is to either work exclusively for one company that gets your IMTA, or work for an agency who gets your IMTA.

If your KITAS is sponsored by a WNI spouse you have the right to “work” freelance to support your family, so you can work for those 7 companies WITHOUT the need for IMTA.

I know this to be true because it’s tried and tested.

jason3 I like the idea of covering yourself by getting an IMTA just in case, but who would apply and process the IMTA for you if you work for multiple entities as a freelance DJ? Almost all DJs are freelance working for different venues and clubs every day. Very few are resident.

guy8 actually I’m not talking at all about working in a business owned or directed by your spouse, I’m specifically talking about “informal” work, in this case as a DJ, for a variety of companies or entities.

This is almost correct. We have a PT that can issue Dj kitas. I also have done this both ways.

It’s unique because of the spousal situation.

A Dj kitas through an event PT - if you are playing multiple venues you should technically have a letter from your sponsor allowing you to be working for the venue you are in.

I think under the spouse KITAS and you only played in 1 or 2 places. You’d have the issue

martin3, i hope immigration have good days when they control yor tested way, this is a strong push in the unterpretation of doing infromal work to support the family, and definitively against labour law that stipule that each companie that want hire a foreigner have to get an imta.

marcel5 if you go to the Immigration office and show them your spouse-sponsored KITAS and say you would like to DJ at the ABC club down the road, they WILL tell you to go ahead and enjoy yourself and not to worry about having an IMTA.

I know this because I’ve done just that at Immigration at Denpasar, Badung, Singaraja, Makassar and Surabaya.

Mm what is the difference between "can I sekk a webpage for this company" its also a one time sell? Because for this i got a cleare no

Did the give you this authorisation on a piece of paper?

Because they told me already a lot and one week later we never said this...

marcel5 I do not really understand what you mean about the webpage.

You cannot work for a company without a work permit no. But you can provide a service to a company as long as it’s in an informal, non-continuous manner. But the local Immigration office would need to decide whether such proposed activity would be considered as such. DJing is such an activity, as is playing s musical instrument.

shane858 I believe the problem lies between the lack of communication between the 2 department, which is something that JoKo is currently addressing for a smoother application system

martin3 martin you can’t work as a Dj without the imta for multiple entities that’s the whole reason you require the imta. If your sponsored by a spouse you can’t just work anywhere you like you have to have an imta to work for multiple clubs

martin3 that’s very true inside bali but the moment you try to work in another region immagration will grab you for no imta. Very grey area

jason3 ok you sound quite sure of your information. It’s true I am not a DJ, I’m a musician. I will ask my DJ mates (who are married to WNI) for the latest info.

Just catching up on this post now. I had to turn off the notifications as my phone was going crazy haha. I don't intend to work outside of Bali other than possibly back in Oz if I go back for a visit. Short of that. I don't intend to be travelling throughout Indonesia at least not to begin with. I have or at least will have a wife (and family) in Bali and my life / work will revolve around building a life for us there and making sure i am home enough still for my family. Maybe if somehow I eventually build a profile, I would look at touring, but for the beginning my work is aimed at being Bali specific.

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For secure as a DJ...u need artist/performer kitas...bar/lounge/club wont provide u imta for freelence..the club/bar/lounge doesnt want to spend another 1.5mil every date u play + 1mil for ur fee + beverages...its big lost for the company..no one will book u..im on this businese for like almost 18years...imigration is watching all the djs..2 of my friend who is the dj got deported because abuse of his kitas..1.he has kitas as a cheff...2.spose kitap..

Correct, this is why all performers (DJs and musicians and others) have a special type of performance KITAS called “impresariat” - it’s valid for up to 6 months and can only be obtained through a specific type of company (agency). They get your IMTA and then you can work anywhere supposedly FOR that agency, although in reality the agency rarely has any knowledge or interest where you work.

martin3 an empresariate Visa is for touring intoernationals for oneness r two shows and only lasts 30days. A Dj living here under a 6’months Kitas has an imta. It’s very different

jason3 my last impresariat KITAS was valid for 6 months and my IMTA cost US$600.

jason3 all expat DJs I know here in Bali have 6 month KITAS and 6 month IMTA

martin3 yes that’s correct but they are not called emprisario. Am empresario is for a single visiting touring Dj

And that not cheap+u have pay ur own taxes in advance...that why expat dj get more fee than local djs.. ?

leon940 finally someone who understands the local laws.

leon940 is spot on with his comments and advice

jason3 taxes+permit+living cost...

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From my many years of following this particular subject its about as grey as grey can be. As too the best of my knowledge you are permitted to work for a family business run by your spouse being an Indonesian citizen. It's really hard to find the correct information on this particular subject. And one off the biggest problems is constant changes in laws and miss information. To be honest even the people in immergration are not always 100% on the current rules as they change so fast and have done particularly the past 4 or so years

I find the immigration law to be clear that spouse sponsored can work to support family. Where it gets grey is that depnaker requires all foreigners who are employed formally to have an IMTA.. while that is not grey, what is grey is at what point the informal work must become formal. Depnaker officials have given examples (quoted by Jason) as an example an expat has a cafe but then it becomes “busy” then require an IMTA.. what is not declared is what is the measurement of “busy”... so one bakso stand can sell 100 a day and be deemed quiet, while another could be deemed busy for the same 100 sales a day... who sets the parameters? Strangely the laws include the exact Rp amount that can be earned as the top threshhold for an employees BPJS, and that hasnt changed in years.. but the minimum salary in each regency is updated more frequently. Im not beaurocrat but if i was i would put all price and fee schedules as an Annex to the law so the law doesnt change but can reference the annex which is then always up to date.

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Any work needs to be “informal”, ie no contracts or licenses.. as soon as you make any formalities such as contracts etc then you will need an IMTA.

Good to see someone else here knows the correct laws /></div></body></html>

Jason, isn't that the truth It's amazing how many people give totally irrelevant, misguided or simply incorrect advice in these forums.

david0 unfortunately yes. And sadly young new DJs can fall into the trap of miss information and end up in a lot of hot water

Jason, shane just said what everyone has been saying.

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Jason is 100 percent correct with the information he has given. As an Aussie dj working and moving In bali what he has stated are the exact t rules and regulations for western djs regardless who they are married roo

I was waiting for you to weigh in on this

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hahaha he calls the DJ's clan to the rescue maybe in his last version he is correct, but not in the first part, or is it the other way as he affirmed 2 different and opposed version, so please tell us witch one is 100% correct

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Actually it’s not correct sorry. The law is convoluted. A person married to an Indonesian has to have IMTA to work for a corporation. ( steady job ). But also has a legal responsibility to provide for their family ( by law ) and the nature of this is intended for freelance work.

What is being said is that Dj work can be considered freelance work. Which is a reasonable assumption.

If it’s a straight dj kitas. Jason is right.

If the position is you plan “to argue and assert” your right to work freelance then you are doing this as an extension of the law In relation to your obligations as a Husband.

You are not right. And both wrong. And right there is a law that is as clear as mud and depends what part of the street you begin the journey, which establishes your point of view or validity in relation to it.

I want to just squash something - this legal responsibility, is badly worded. Its a responsibility explaining certain legal rights; if it were a legal responsibility, you would get into trouble if you didnt do it.

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Once again feels like a perspective thing - if you are touring jason3 and your names on a billboard and in magazines. Then of course you need a IMTA. It’s not at all on any level casual. If you at doing an occasional Dj here and there - then it would be covered as per martin3 advise.

In this instance I would advise against any venue naming you as the talent. Because that would be a contracted booking and you would of course be exposed.

Or more exposed

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That information is correct as far as I know.

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frieska732 maybe you can help him?

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The big argument going on here is that those who are not djs, myself included, did not know that there are special rules for djs. And those who are djs, expected everyone to know this, and also mistakenly quoted their (special) laws as applying to everyone. While both sidea had their points and mistakes, it should be noted that the general public or even lawyers, cannot really be expected to know what rules apply to this this tiny, esoteric group of people, whereas the djs could be expected to realise that their case is a special one.

I have special rules, just for me.

any special rules for somebody else?

So this morning I have spoken to two DJs, both married to WNI, one with KITAP and one with KITAS both sponsored by their spouses.

The consensus of opinion gathered from first hand personal experiences and pertaining to the points raised in this post is as follows:

  1. Instrumentalists and DJs are both classed as performers and if they are not married to WNI then they need a performance “Impresariat” KITAS which is valid for anything between one week and up to 6 months. They also need IMTA which costs them US$100 per month. Their KITAS and IMTA are arranged by an entertainment company and officially they are supplied by this company to the venues where they perform and should have a letter from their company instructing them to play there. In reality the company probably has little if any knowledge nor interest in where their DJ’s play or what they get up to.

  2. When you are married to a WNI spouse and your KITAS/P is sponsored by your spouse you can work as a freelance DJ as long as you are not being advertised too brazenly. Any contract should be in your spouse’s name and payments made to your spouse.

  3. If your unofficial / impromptu / freelance DJing gigs get more structured, full time, heavily publicised or you start taking on managerial duties like arranging other DJs, hiring dancers, paying people etc etc then you’ll need an IMTA to be safe. You can get one from the venue you are now full time at, or from an entertainment company.

And as with so many of these twilight zone dealings, it’s probably a good idea to go to your local Immigration office, explain your specific case and follow their advice.

This is as correct as you can get

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