Let me re-phrase and clarify my question. Is the "me pushed out" concept 100% applicable?
Let me re-phrase and clarify my question...
How could there be an exception?
How can circumstances we don't even know or think about i.e. the death or illness of someone, be us pushed out?
fredo6 the only way to prove it yourself is that now onward you push yourself out as someone who knows someone who used to be ill but now they’re not. And see how it goes.
Whatever happened upto this point, when you were not in possession of this knowledge is hard to reverse engineer for you did not use your power consciously. So I’d recommend going the other way around
Proof by contradiction
To know or think about something, you must know or think about it.. And at that moment of knowing, it is you pushed out. In other words, nothing exists without you knowing or thinking about it, because you are the creator God, after all
What you are saying doesn't make sense. If nothing else tends to prove my thought which is, that while there is validity to me pushed out, that things still occur that we have to interact with not of our doing because people create their own me pushed out situations that we must deal with.
You are the only one creating reality. I know, it can be a tough pill to swallow, but to buy the pearl, you must accept that I AM, that the only reality is your consciousness. Everything is you pushed out, because you is all that exists.
inge74 I understand that my thoughts, feelings and beliefs create. Again, I get this. I just don't see how this is 100% applicable. That's why I gave those examples. Those people, in multitude and individually, would think that one man would discard their financial future, or that their loved one would be taken from them in an instant or that the love of their life was never theirs. Now, having cited these I can see where me pushed out can react to those circumstances and make it work for them. But as I see it, Madoff's me pushed out caused people problems and those people dealt with it in their own ways.
"Those people" didn't create anything, because those people are you pushed out. There is only one consciousness, one imagination. You, at the moment of thinking about those people and situations, created them.
Yes, I understood you meant it's something you don't want to think about. But I suggest you do give it a try. If there is only one cause, and you create all of reality, then you must also create the sickness and death in that reality, as easily as you can create life and health. Otherwise, you are assuming a cause outside of yourself.
inge74 You just cited a great example. I didn't know of "those people". I am not related nor even would begin to think of their welfare. I found out about those situations after they happened. Nowhere in my mind did I imagine any of that happening. Please don't imply as such because I've known my thoughts, feelings and emotions all my life. If you were correct I would not be asking this.
inge74 I've applied Neville's teachings for a year now and there is validity that it works. But that is not what I'm questioning. Imagining does create reality and we ARE responsible for our own. However, the full acceptance of me pushed out as 100% applicable doesn't sit well with me. Here's a little side note regarding questing Neville. He speaks of characters in the Bible is states. But, in more than one lecture he mentions that he and Blake, dined with Ezekial and Isaiah and asked them questions. If people listen and read enough of his lectures repeatedly there will be other things you will notice.
The moment you "found out" is the moment you admitted them into reality, therefore making them manifest. But it seems to me you are insisting that you aren't creating all of reality, that there is a cause outside of yourself. In that case, you haven't bought the pearl, and aren't really following Neville's teachings. You can't get past that by trying to "figure it out". You must accept that you are creator God, responsible for all of creation, regardless if you recognize the thoughts and emotions in yourself that lead to your creations manifesting. Otherwise, you'll be stuck forever.
So: are you ready to buy the pearl? If not, our discussion won't go anywhere, because I can't force you to accept the pearl.
And the next question: What do you want? Right now, it seems what you want most is to point out contradictions in Neville's teachings. Which is fine, if that really is your desire.
inge74 I won't accept simply because I'm told. I'm not saying it's not true or valid but in order to apply anything correctly, confidently and with faith one must absorb it without question. I'm not there.
Inge Af Borg I want to take this all in and KNOW it is what is implied. This is not about Neville. This "way" has been in existence for thousands of years. So perhaps I can question Neville as the man which would be fine to me, but the rest I want to take in without question and not just because people say so.
I'm not saying you should accept it without questioning it. You should play with it, until you find out the truth for yourself. You want to KNOW, and you want PROOF - only you can give those to yourself.
inge74 Yes, I have applied it which I did mention. To apply anything it's important to know the triggers, limitations (if any), responsibilities and so on. I can drive a car but that's not enough. I still need to know the rules of the road, how to manage the car, etc.. As Neville says, know the risks.
But then, why are you even asking this question.. if you don't want to accept the answers, or if you know that only you can find the knowing and the proof for yourself? Twenty was right in closing the comments.. you are distracting yourself from playing with this by trying to figure it out. This discussion won't help you.
You don't drive the car by reading the manual and trying to find spelling mistakes in there. You drive the car by sitting in it and starting it up, and driving it, to go with your analogy. Right now, we are still trying to figure out the manual, which isn't getting us any closer to where we want to drive? If you spend a year reading the manual, you will still be sitting in exactly the same place, and haven't driven anywhere.
inge74 The answer is a mere yes. I've explained my question again and again. Discussions are feedback and perhaps something will resonate (with me and others with similar questions). The reason I'm asking the question is because I have played with this. I've done my own deep studying behind the scenes and continue to which is why this came up.
This doesn't seem like play to me, it seems like war..
And your question has been answered time and time again: buy the pearl, and there will be no contradiction between I AM and the seeming other.
That's what Neville says though.. you have to buy the pearl, which means abandoning belief in everything else but the one cause.
"And first of all, let us say that the Kingdom of Heaven is simply that state into which man rises, where everything is completely subject to his imaginative power. He is destined to be an heir, one with his Father, who is God, where everything is put under his power.
Now here is the quote from this 13th of Matthew:
The Kingdom of Heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls, who finding one pearl of great value, went and sold all that he had and bought it.
It is my hope that I can bring you to that pearl tonight. You may not value it to the point where you’re willing to sell all that you have to buy it.
But I will tell you of this pearl. Very few are willing to sell all and buy the pearl."
inge74 Neville was a man subject to the same limitations and gifts we all are. He is not that one I am following in real application. I am following the teaching that existed long before he did. He is representing that teaching and did/does it well but it is not his nor did he ever claim it to be. He has represented the Law Of Assumption when no one else has. People confuse his methods to Law Of Attraction which it is far rom. Perhaps therein lies my answer.
Yes, I think your answer is that this isn't the group to discuss anything else than Neville's teachings.
inge74 You keep implying I'm not there because I'm asking a question that can't seem to be answered and therefore, I'm the one missing out. Far from it. I'm the one moving forward because I'm going deeper.
Well that sounds good, clearly you don't need anything more from me then
Carla, I've been studying Neville for a year very deeply. I have his books and listened to many of his lectures over and over again because I always pick up something new despite having heard it many times before. I am at the stage I am noticing contradictions which is why I ask. I'm not a passerby on this but for myself it's important to understand it further to absorb it deeper and faster. Neville was human and went through stages himself with this.
Here's the applicable Neville quote, copied from elsewhere in this group
inge74 To permit something to occur one must know about it. Yes, if someone suggests sickness it can be adopted as true and made manifest. But when someone goes for a general check up for themself or someone they love and given bad news, that's not something initially planted in the head beforehand.
If you don't allow it, or revise it, then it ceases to be be admitted, and ceases to be made manifest.
Like I said before, to know or think about something, you must know or think about something. Nothing can happen without you knowing or thinking about it. So, at the moment of knowing of the sickness or death, you are making it manifest, if you admit it.
I think the actual question here may be "if I create everything, why are there things I don't want in the world?" (or even the age old "if God is benevolent, why is there evil?"). Well, in the same way there are things you want in the world: you felt them real, and in that way created them. In the post with the comments locked, you mentioned a situation about persons x and y having a bad financial situation that was out of their control. This is what you are giving life to, and meaning to. Stop giving life to things you don't want.
Please don't twist the question around. Those were examples of things that have occurred that people would not have applied to themselves as me pushed out. If I didn't have those there would be confusion in what I'm asking. Don't give life to the untrue reason I am asking this. Please focus on the questions.
There is no "other", only you.
And I don't speak of benevolent God which you have added. I'm asking about the 100% application of me pushed out. Please stay with that.
So to answer your question: yes, the concept is 100% applicable. There is only you, or I AM, nothing can exist outside of that.
inge74 Twenty said yes already. But I want to understand and not accept just because people say so. Neville does not go further into this in anything that I've read or heard. There ARE some contradictions in Neville's teachings that i have noticed. I catch them now that I listen and read over and over - not from sites but his actual writings. Trying to connect the dots.
I'm not sure in how many other ways I can put it. When you buy the pearl, you accept there is only one cause. There is no contradiction there.
Neville repeatedly expressed implicitly and explicitly that everything we see is self pushed out. Perhaps his most quoted non-scriptural passage is Blake: "All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within, in your imagination, of which this world of mortality is but a shadow." And to TEST it. The way to test it is to proceed from the assumption that its true, 100% of the time, and then through awareness and attention, make correlations between what we see and what we imagine/ give life/ assume to be true. Its that simple.
Max Shenk Max, I understand the concept which I have said and I don't even doubt it. What I am asking is how would it be 100% applicable? I will repeat an example that's a contradiction. Neville says the bible characters are states and yet, he and Blake have dinner with them and discuss prophets and imagining. So, not to say what he says isn't true but is it as 100% applicable as it's being interpreted to be and/or are there other laws that need to be considered.
You're thinking too much. Trying to figure this out or reconcile seeming contradictions will give your rational mind something to do, even if that "something" is just "twisting itself into a pretzel."
The simplest way I've found to understand it is: if we are the Elohim, God made man and incarnated in individual beings, a compound unity, one made up of many, then we all together constitute the ONE God ("Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one "), then all you see before you is God. You are God, they are God, and in that sense it's "all you pushed out."
But if you really want to think about it... what can you know that is NOT the content of your consciousness? All you can know is what you perceive. Right?
As for seeming contradictions in Neville's or Blake's or anyone's accounts or experiences, clearly both men had visions that they wished to at least make sense of, if not communicate to the rest of us. If we're talking about eternity and infinity, that would include a few inexplicable contradictions, right?
Don't think about it too much.
max207 I don't think it's fair that since there isn't an explanation that I'm told I'm thinking too much or I don't believe or this or that. This is a process. People start with read this and listen to that which I have done, then it requires more than a standard act. I have applied this to my life even in that I have experience. This is my processing and BECAUSE I am doing more than reading and listening other things are being brought to my attention that many have not apparently noticed. So, with that it seems that rather than say there's no clear explanation that I'm the one that's not doing something right or doing too much. Teachers walk with you through the unknown either for support or to learn themselves to make them better teachers. They don't tell you it's not okay for you to question the path or that you won't encounter what most don't. Stating one is God here in this world doesn't make us perfect. Neville states this as we are conscious creators, not perfection. I will state it again. I am not following Neville or anyone else as a person. It's the teaching that's important.
What can I say? You asked a question --"is the 'me pushed out' concept 100% applicable?"-- and we answered simply and repeatedly: yes. We are invited to test this. If you have doubts, put it to the test. My experience or opinion or rationalization won't convince you, and it shouldn't. Only your experience will convince you, and the only way to do that is to put it to the test.
max207 Perfect! To apply this, and that of many others who have as well, and can say no this hasn't really been 100%, then why? Of course, the initial answer will be we aren't doing it right? No, because I know I've done it right before and know the feeling now. What does the pipe bursting that I could care less about have anything to do with me pushed out? I've been pm'd about this question because there are those afraid to ask and push it because of the response they may get.
"What does the pipe bursting that I could care less about have anything to do with me pushed out?"
I don't know. But it does. Trust that. It has occurred perhaps not because of a specific imaginal act, but because of something you assume to be true and have given life. FEELING IS THE SECRET. There is a feeling in this experience that is congruent with an assumption or expectation that you hold. If you can't discern it, redeem it. Revise the experience so that it is in line with what you want.
Well, I thought I had which is why I cited examples. The contradiction to me is that there have been things in my own life that I didn't see coming. That in no way I could have had the knowledge to even imagine it much less manifest it. I'm sure we all can relate. So, if that is the case the me pushed out is not 100%. It's becoming clear to me that the me pushed out simply interacts with other people's me pushed out. My response, belief, feeling and thought about what happens to others or my outlook of other is mine for sure. But they have a say it what happens to them, too and I "interact" with those.
What do you think "there is only one cause" means?
There are more Gods than one?
That would mean there is more than ONE cause.. If you think that, it means you haven't bought the pearl quite yet.
And one cause isn't US.. the one cause is I AM. Not a plural.
inge74 Again, I understand this [inge74]), but to just be told it is without the connections isn't acceptable. I see how it works and how it's applicable. Just not how it's applicable 100% of the time.
I don't think you understand.. There are no others. It's all just you. One consciousness, one imagination, one creator God.
What do you think "buying the pearl" means?
fredo6 It is NOT what YOU imagine. It is what you BELIEVE to be true from your ASSUMPTIONS. That is the tricky part that confuses everyone. YOU personally may have NEVER imagined anyone dying or getting sick, but you were told a belief from this life or a past life, that people CAN die and accepted it as true. Therefore it continues to manifest in your world. Imagination does NOT create reality, BELIEFS create reality.
michael95 Hi Michael. I do believe and understand that we all tend to act and react based on our experiences and knowledge both past and present. And I can see how any of those thoughts, feelings and experiences can be brought to life. So let's get that out of the way. I tried to cite somewhat unusual circumstances and hope no one was offended. But let's go back to the pipes. Sure, pipes can burst at any time and can happen to anyone. That's a part of living or working in a place with pipes. You know when you were a child the pipes in your homes burst during the winter - okay. Does that mean you, on this particular day in the depth of your subconscious believed your pipes would burst today while you were at work? Not being sarcastic here,. just pointing out specifically.
fredo6 Nope. You could have imagined "things always go wrong for me", that assumption can cause pipes to burst, cars to break, fires etc. It can be a mind fuck trying to find out the actual cause of it.
michael95 Well, this IS a form of explanation but it's general. In essence no one really knows the cause of things (to an extent). IF that is the truth, no one can truly validate (they can believe) that me pushed out is 100%. We have a say but not all the say. To quote Neville we are the "cause of the phenomena of life". But that applies to you, me and others.
Lecture posted by Bonnie Donaldson a few hours ago might be helpful to you. I commented on it just a while ago also. "Sound Investment" by Neville Goddard
Neville mentions his wife had a dream and this is where he gets investing vs. spending incorporated in his lectures. To this I agree whether Neville taught or not. I can't invest in something I don't know. Therefore, how can I gain or lose what I don't know of because I didn't create it. How then, does it still occur?
Ok let’s put another example.. because I have the same conflict with this as Fredo I adopted a dog and in my mind when I adopted the dog there were idyllic images of me walking my nice and kind dog in the park, playing with my dog and I’m taking care of the dog with all my love.. and that’s what I do but then the dog is rude, barks all the time, he’s even aggressive.. I was not expecting that at all, I’ve been giving love and attention and expecting and imagining the best and I’m not getting what I imagined, so how this is me pushed out??!!
To extend the dog analogy, if you try to figure out WHY or HOW, you're just chasing your tail. Instead, assume that it IS you and proceed from there. Revise.
Yeah, I think this is it.. it just can be a hard pill to swallow that I indeed AM the only cause, like it or not. But there's no other way than to accept responsibility of all that I have created, which is all of reality. The good news is, with recognizing my ultimate responsibility, I also recognize my ultimate power.
Max Shenk Max that is correct. But that has been my point here. We apply the me pushed out to other situations that occur from others me pushed out. Perhaps she ended up with this dog because someone else wanted it adopted so badly they didn't tell her the challenges. I don't know. But now it is up to her to apply this given she was put in the situation or call it whatever you want.
Once you accept this, you can proceed from there
Inge Af Borg Okay? I don't buy that you think of your pipes when they aren't an issue but okay. I'll accept that you did.
And that's the whole crux of the discussion here, at least for me?
So, on the plus side, I can now revise the pipes NOT bursting, just as easily?
I'm not sure what the difference is.. once I admit something into existence, it becomes reality. It doesn't mean I have to be consciously sitting there and thinking about my pipes for an hour, after all, I create all of reality, so I wouldn't have time for that if everything took an hour of conscious thought
So do you need to create everything you experience consciously? Sounds like a lot of work
Hmm but then you still claim you aren't the creator of everything.. not sure what your point is.
What Neville talks about is there being no free will, that everything is moved to play its part in reaching the state you are in. The state is conscious, yes, but the creation of the bridges is not.
inge74 “The illusion of the free will to do is but ignorance of the law of assumption upon which all action is based.” This is one of the first topics I immersed myself in. But this is not about the bridge of incidents. It's prior to that.
Inge Af Borg I don't have a point which is why the questions. I'm not declaring, I'm asking and responding to your statements.
Sure, I agree that the end state is conscious, and that is where everything is created from. But you don't have to create every single experience in between, Neville actually says that it is not for us to create the incidents in between, we only get to walk over the bridges, not consciously build them. There is only the word of God, adding to it by trying to create everything consciously is just messing it up.
inge74 I agree. Live in the end. I'm not sure why the bridge of incidents came up in this discussion. I never mentioned that. There's a difference with me pushed out and bridge of incidents and free will.
So sure, if my state is "I'm unlucky, bad things always happen to me", then I shouldn't be too surprised that when I get home, my pipes have burst..
Neville says that he isn't talking of anything rational here, so I'm afraid that if you insist on being "completely rational" (whatever that could be) here, you won't get further, again.
Inge Af Borg Why is it when one asks for clarity and it can't be provided the end result is being rational or wanting proof or not accepting and therefore, the one not getting it? When people ask questions it's because they want deeper knowledge. I seldom post here and I don't repeat my questions. Like I said, I study mostly on my own but there are things I can't fully understand whether it wasn't covered enough or the explanation changes. No, you may not be able to answer the question which is perfectly fine. An I don't know or your question doesn't make sense to me is okay. Don't imply that I am the one at a loss because that couldn't be further from the truth with regards to this.
The answer you will get in this group is likely to be "play with this yourself". But consider this.. if everyone is you pushed out, then who are you talking to? To yourself, of course. So you are expecting yourself to tell yourself how things are..
In which case, you can just answer your own question. I see none of the answers you have gotten so far have been satisfactory, anyway.
I find I play with this concept a lot during lucid dreams. I often ask dream characters what they represent, after all, they are just me pushed out! But here’s where it gets absolutely crazy...
I once had a lucid dream where I asked an old man what he represented. He replies, “I represent boredom”. I turn to another old man who was in conversation with him and ask him what he represented, he responded with something like monotony. Then I decided to ask THEM what I represented...
His response was, “You represent greed, bitterness, and resentment!” ??????
I actually laughed at him and told him that didn’t seem very nice to be represented that way, then he goes on a diatribe about how those feelings aren’t “bad” but necessary for our growth and understanding.
So from now on, not only think about what others represent as you pushed out, BUT, what do you represent for THEM? Take it a step further and ask yourself what you DESIRE to represent for them!
PLAY PLAY PLAY AWAY!!
This reminds me of my discussions with my dream characters, when I once got the very angry answer "It's none of your business, what right do you even have to bother us?"? It's fun, but I wouldn't attach too much meaning to it
That's interesting rebecca88428 because I was just going to say to Fredo Celia that if she wanted to find a "scientific explanation", look no further than Carl Jung and here you are with his Archtypes and Dreams...love it! Twenty twenty46004 noticed an aggressive dog in his local park gabriela8 and stuck with what you are doing - Imagining Lovingly.. i hope you don't think I am being unkind but am wondering if your dog is picking up what I am picking up from your post i.e. "I adopted you so you'd better be on your best behaviour..."
No, it was just an hypothetical situation...
No, I'm not looking for a scientific explanation. I already find that Gregg Braden does a great job at combining science with spirituality. This is about understanding, not proving.
rosaleen572 I'm a fan of Gregg Braden whereby he discusses the history of praying and what was lost in the translation. That thoughts, emotions and belief have power. He mentions the divine Matrix which touches on all of this. Again, I am not focused on a person i.e. Neville or Gregg. It's the teaching because this way has been around for so long and unless you've known it personally, most are dependent on the instructions and explanations of certain individuals. Gregg ties it all together.
One day I found myself a member of this group. Became very interested, started reading the lectures, interacting with the buddies, getting the results. For me, Neville ties it all together, which is why I am in this lovely Neville group. You know?