Um....pharmaceuticals are the 4th leading cause of death worldwide!!Two...

Um....pharmaceuticals are the 4th leading cause of death worldwide!!Two large recent Cochrane studies mirrorred results of one done in the 80's that at best only 10 percent of drugs on the market we have scientific proof that 90 percent of the shit that doctors peddle actually KILLS "which isnt quackery" yet you guys find isolated instances where a natural remedy has purportedly lead to death discounting 1000 other possibilities and pounce all over it...hey....if all these trials have passed most drugs that dont work then isnt science u useless too?And what better way to keep a potential natural remedy as quackery than never testing it in the name of big pharma's altruistic search for the truth and cure to end all suffering...if they keep medicating symptoms and ignore the cause of disease now proven to echo Hippocrates conviction in the gut people never get better and keep buying more drugs...PERFECTO

Do you have a link to these "studies"? Do these "studies" account for improper application and/or administration of medication?

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What James said. You cite studies which you have not linked.

Also, even if I accept your conceit that "90% of drugs don't work" that is not equivalent to "90% of drugs kill people". Furthermore, a lot of alternative medicine has been tested, and failed to demonstrate that it works any better than placebo.

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lord soros will not be pleased with you unraveling his plans=p

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Following because that damn follow post button never works for me.

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I would say obvious troll is obvious, but Poe's Law is very much in effect here.

Did you look at his page?...he's next level crazy

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Haha...lord soros indeed...yep i agree with the above but i can cite them now if you want...ok well if pharmaceuticals are the 4th leading cause of death then we can only logically conclude that of the 90 percent that dont work at least a fair amount kill....and Cochrane have passed countless herbs that work not to mention many that actually have been tested with remarkable the scientific community a herb could be sworn in as the grand means squat if a whole scientific community refuse to let go of a dominant paradigm or it cant be patented....when H Pylori was definitively linked to thirty percent of ulcers challenging the paradigm of no acid no ulcer it took fucking thirty years to integrate it in which time they worked round the clock trying to debunk it....oh....why do anecdotes between three doctors allow them to go off label with no evidence using a harsh drug but half the world swearing by garlic is discounted?

Science progresses by attempts to disprove

Yes, please cite them.

Why would you conclude that only the drugs that don't work kill people? I'd say they're less likely to kill people than drugs that do work when misapplied, given to the wrong patient, due to allergies or along with other meds they shouldn't be etc.. I bet anesthesia and coumadin account for a big chunk of them - there is risk in lots of medications. That doesn't mean they don't work or that the risks aren't vastly outweighed by the benefits.

Avi can't cite. None of these bullshitters ever can.

Do your research buddy....if i say the sky is blue u scientists will ad nauseum say "cite"....debunk my points or shut it

You need the spellcheck

Fair enough! Please set us straight and point us to the "two large recent studies" you're referencing so we can research them.

Type in google "pharmaceuticals fourth leading cause of death"...not rocket science..the only pseudoscience is science which has no objective body to oversee its operations leaving researchers free to fiddle and suppress or see what they believe...most constructs in this world exist on a continuum in shades of grey yet a trial demands black and white removing all confounds so construct is has proven most drugs not to work after thousands of purported watertight trials swear by their efficacy?

Help us out here! I typed that in and don't seem to be landing on the studies you're talking about. Can't you link to the specific studies rather and some google keywords? Google tends to tailor its results to the browser's profile anyway.

Your word diarrhea isn't evidence of anything except your gullibility and propensity to believe whatever seems true to you.

"science has proven most drugs not to work after thousands of purported watertight trials swear by their efficacy?"

It has?

Here. Why the fuck did you make ME do your citing Avi, you suck at bullshitting. Also, this fda writing only talks about the US, not the world, you damn foo.

FDA is basically saying there some fuzzy range in with averse reactions to pharmaceuticals cause death. Something you could probably do parameter estimation on if you looked at the studies (which Avi definitely has not).

It does seem high, and this IS a problem, the suggested solution of sticking cinnamon sticks up your ass to cure drug deaths isn't the solution. Better practices within the medical establishment are.

Also, we haven't counted "deaths from pseudo-scientific bullshit" which would also probably be quite high.

I don't think that's it. He stated "two large recent Cochrane studies mirrorred results of one done in the 80's"

There is something to be said for not trusting the medical establishment carte blanche. My sibling was killed by malpractice and my father's cancer was terribly managed leading to a very painful death. So I really hate it when a discussion that should be about "what are your options to getting much better medical care" + "how can we reform the medical system" is hijacked by new age bullshitters.

And whilst citing every word might be your standard of a "non bullshitter" its kinda hard to go back over years of research unless its a particular point which rests on having to do so....for example a recent study showing the first head transplant by a quack of quacks

Yes getting to the truth of phenomenon is hard. But whatever dude, have fun shoving cinnamon sticks up your ass to treat tumors.

Medical practice doesn't always keep up with science, for reasons including inertia, cost, uncertainty. For good info on these problems, and the problems of quackery, I like

And then you and Steve Jobs can talk about the effectiveness of natural remedies when you get to Woo-Woo Western Guy In Thailand Nirvana.

"science has proven most drugs not to work after thousands of purported watertight trials swear by their efficacy?" Ummm...wut? So, what you're saying is science proves drugs don't work, even though science proves they do work? ? Sound logic bro

"..most constructs in this world exist on a continuum in shades of grey yet a trial demands black and white removing all confounds so construct is lost..." No. No it doesn't. Science tries to "increase the contrast" if you will, between shades of grey, but you will never read a single study that purports to have the final, indisputable answer. Cool story though, could've used more quantum ?

Where are your citations, avi7? Other people finding one then proceeding to rip it to shreds doesn't count, you know.

avi7 if you were confident in your "research," you would have cited your sources already. You have lost. Now be an adult and admit it.

I would like to read them, Avi. Please at the very least give title and the names of authors. Otherwise, I don't know if I'm reading the same research.


bradley503 passes you the ranch dressing=p

I believe it's been in the sun so long that it's word soup. I'll send oyster crackers.

"When H Pylori was definitively linked to thirty percent of ulcers challenging the paradigm of no acid no ulcer it took fucking thirty years"

Actually, it didn't. It was identified in 1982, first mentioned in the medical press in 1983, full paper in 1984, and in 2005 the discoverers got the Nobel Prize in Medicine for it. In the interim... within a few years multiple research groups had verified the association of H. pylori with gastritis and, to a lesser extent, ulcers. It takes time to set up the studies, run the study and evaluate the results. Within a few years is actually record-breaking speed.

I suggest you read this, which explains why you are wrong. H. pylori's history is perfectly normal... the initial "have you replicated that?" was followed by a trickle and then a flood of replications and studies.

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Also, tf is with people seeing Soros as the Final Boss of late-stage capitalism?

Well you can't just say the jews control the world, you have to use Soros as a bogeyman to hide antisemitism

Latest bogeyman. I'm only in my thirties, yet I still remember the go-to proxy used to be the Rothschilds or the Rockefellers not so long ago.... But that window-dressing became too transparent for everybody, I guess

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Also, Avi, you just made not a single valid point. Hell, you were mostly incoherent.

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Using the results of a scientific study to claim it proves science is useless.

And still not cited the studies.

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drugs may not work for various patients for various reasons whether it be the side effects are affecting them more than they would affect someone else all this means is for this one person the drug is not a solution to the problem and they need to consult with their doctor to find a better solution. are drugs a perfect cure-all NOPE but with proper usage and oversight they can either outright solve a problem or help a patient control a problem. to sit here and assume that if a drug does not work for a small group it should be pulled from the market is insane

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